>> Listen to the episode on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and others.

TRANSCRIPT:

DOUG: Aaron, can you start by just giving the top line of what Deseret Management does?

AARON: So, Deseret Management Corporation is an operating company comprised of media companies and organizations that are all about public facing engagement. So, Deseret Management is about communications, engagement and the media.

DOUG: And when you talk about the media part, that’s something you’re deeply involved in. You’ve talked about what you call the deforestation of local news. What do you mean by that?

AARON: Well, the problem that we’re talking about today, that deforestation is one that I can’t talk about without talking about the legacy and the history of where our company is coming from. As I mentioned, Desert Management Corporation is an operating company of multiple brands and companies, but one of them is a local media organization, the Deseret News. And that company, founded in 1850s when that part of the United States, not even the United States, in the earliest days of its settlement, was being settled independent and great journalism was already a part of history. It was local, it was current, and it’s been a part of society forever. Right? We’ve always been communicating on a local level. When we lose that, we lose something important. And in the United States of America, I think Doug, were in that crisis mode. I read a stat just before talking to you where 2500 newspapers are in the US today, but a quarter closed since 2005. So, we’re not looking at a gradual number of the loss of local media outlets if we’re just talking newspapers. So, the deforestation of local media refers to exactly that, the fact that we’ve got a landscape of great local media in the United States of America, but with the upending of the business model and with technology, it’s been deforested. Some of the greats have fallen, some of the greats have been taken down and some of the greats just can’t afford to stand.

DOUG: Yeah, now that that is unfortunate. And I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention that Deseret has an association with the Church of Latter-day Saints, and people may make assumptions just from me saying that maybe being surprised by the conversation we’ve had so far. How do you go about challenging the assumptions that people are making all the time in a non-confrontational way?

AARON: I love what you just did because I think you just modeled it a transparent and open conversation about a company like mine with ownership from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints or multiple organizations, corporate, nonprofit or otherwise, that can be aligned with something that you don’t subscribe to or that you’re not a member of, can’t be immediate disqualification. So, what you just did, I think, is modeling what we’ve got to do as PR professionals. We’ve got to model the fact that if we want to bemoan a polarized world and bemoan a world where trust is at an all-time low and scare each other, or maybe just educate each other with a stats about all time low trust, maybe what we should do is be transparent about where we’re coming from and acknowledge that I can engage with you even if your corporate ownership or even if you’re alignment is with something that’s not mine. We live in a world where pluralism, the idea that not just acknowledging your difference, but educating myself about it is important and that’s related to media as well. We’re finding and I’d love to, to talk with you and with your community more about the fact that as it relates to the media, it’s not just enough to ask the media to cover the story of the day. It’s to help us understand the stories that maybe we don’t realize we need to be educated more on, maybe that bring us the richness. And that includes things like faith. It includes things like identities. It includes things like culture.

DOUG: We actually did a survey and it’s so ironic that local media is being hit so hard because in our survey, by a factor of 86% to 14, local media was considered more trusted than social media. And by a similar overwhelming margin, local TV news was more trusted than national news. And it didn’t matter if you were a Democrat or a Republican, you agreed on that. So, you know, faith is an area that’s talked about a lot. If you can talk about that nexus of faith and communications you referenced, what do you mean by that and how do we work around that to build community?

AARON: Sure. Well, and I want to just echo what you said about the local connection, because let’s be honest, I’m someone who wants to understand conservation and climate change and want to hear about it and learn about it from the experts. But my local weather reporter, I want to know what she or he is seeing because I know that they live with me. They’re part of my community, they’re seeing the impacts locally, but they also are educated by the best and they do have a science that they that they understand and they’re talking to the policy experts. So, it resonates with me as it relates to faith and media. Let me tell you the interesting nexus. So over 80% of the world identifies with a faith of some kind, whether that means they’re a member or they’re worshiping regularly or whatever, they align with faith. If I told you that 82 to 85% of anything, just be a PR professional like you are for a minute. If I told you that 82 to 85% of anybody was part of anything, you would be climbing all over yourself to learn about it, to engage with it, to talk about it. But when it comes to faith, for some reason in our community and also with the media, there’s been these unnatural taboos that have crept up. And for some reason we think that it’s not appropriate or correct to talk about those issues. But today, in 2023, you and I having this interview, we welcome the fact that we want people to show up at work and show up in society and show up in their profession as their whole self. That’s a phrase that I welcome, that I hear all the time. Why don’t we show up, including what 84% of people around the world say is important to them, a faith tradition, a culture, something very different, chances are from mine, but something that will enrich our discussion, just as would any of the identities that I have in my life, any of the cultural identities, any of the history or background. So, as it relates to faith and media, my challenge to our colleagues and what I’m hearing from journalists as part of the Faith and Media initiative is that we should embrace this idea of let society show up as its whole self. That includes a society that cares very much about faith, religion, God centered spirituality. However it’s defined, it’s a part of how people have their own real-life existence.

DOUG: Yeah, and everyone brings a different perspective to these types of discussions. One of the things that occurred to me, which is very unfortunate from where I’m at, is the hesitancy to bring faith into it doesn’t seem to apply for the people who are at the most extreme sides of it. So, what we’re doing is a lot of the mainstream aspects of the benefits that faith brings maybe are being overlooked for the extreme positions and perhaps less tolerance from those than we need to be. Does that align with something you’re seeing?

AARON: Absolutely, because one thing that we know and we know that there’s communicators, but we also know this from the data, If you leave a void in the public conversation, it will be filled and it will most likely be filled by the extremes. Now, 53% of people in a recent study said that they wanted more nuanced or more detailed coverage of religion in their news. That’s fascinating because that’s saying that people understand that there’s a void. They’re hearing the extremes. They know that the extremes are filling the void or screaming very loudly. So, what can you do? Give me a little bit more detail. Give me a little bit more nuance. Help me understand. Don’t give me shortcuts. The good news is that journalists agree they want to do more of these reports. They want to do them a little bit more of the storytelling and the subscribers, the news consumers are saying we will consume it and will actually rise, or we will give a benefit or we will give preferential treatment to those news brands or those brands that are helping bring better coverage to light. What it’s saying is don’t go to the dumbest common denominator or don’t assume that we want the dumbest common denominator of something in us. The best content nominator.

DOUG: If you don’t mind if I can interrupt, don’t assume who is the dumbest person because a lot of times you’re way off base when you make those assumptions.

AARON: And this is an education that needs to happen with everyone. So, I’m not placing blame at anywhere along the supply chain here, but consumers need to say clearly what they want from their news brands. Journalists, if they want better and more training, and the majority of them say they do on these issues, they should be able to get it. Philanthropies that support great journalism should be offering them. Editors should have the ability to say, I want to choose this because maybe an advertiser would be interested if my news outlet were covering this. So, it’s not like there’s a blame game to be had here. What there is, is an opportunity for everyone. There is a lot of banter on this issue when there could be more bridging. And the bridging is probably, I’m going to go back to before that 82 to 85%. Not the reason I approach these issues. It’s not the reason that my that my company approaches these issues. But there is a business opportunity here. And when it comes to public relations and communications, I think we should be aware of the fact that the world identifies with faith. I’m not saying that they should capitalize on that. That’s not the only purpose for this. But if you want to be a great relevant brand or a great relevant communicator, why wouldn’t you be talking to people about what’s relevant in their hearts and in their lifestyle and in the way that they have their lived experience?

DOUG: One question that does come up, because clearly there are media outlets that, you know, generate profit by reaching out to the most, to their audience, to the most extreme side. I mean, the Dominion case at Fox is uncovering a question of do we tell the truth when our audience is going to retaliate against us, which is a very challenging piece. What’s the process to get people to see that business opportunity in bringing people together?

AARON: Well, I think one of the things that you mentioned in your question is important because it underlines how important checks and balances are and how important fact checking and truth is when it comes to reporting on sensitive issues, issues that can be I mean, these are charged issues, right? When they’re relevant, they’re also charged. One of the things that I want to address here is that we’ve heard from journalists and again, in recent studies that are available on the Faith and Media Initiative website and on other websites, because there’s a lot of good work going on on this issue, is that journalists are saying and editors would benefit from knowing that within the newsrooms, fact checking and corroboration and collaboration is important. But not everyone inside the newsroom feels like they can show up as their whole self, even as a journalist. That’s fascinating. Now, there’s been some great work done on this. There’s some books that I’m enjoying learning from on this issue about those blind spots, if you will, that might exist in a newsroom. But the case that you bring up, I think, shows that we all need to have checks and balances in our own professional dominions. Now, that’s true for newsrooms and it’s true for the PR professionals as well. Checks and balances that say, am I playing to an extreme or am I actually talking about what’s relevant to the to the general population of consumers that I’m that I’m serving?

DOUG: Yeah. One area that we’re seeing a lot of growth in interest from our own survey data is PR and the metaverse. It’s been nearly a 400% increase in actual projects being done in the metaverse this year compared to last year in PR And we’ve just launched Metaverse 3.0 to support some of the PR services that are happening. What’s your take on if the metaverse can be an opportunity? And of course, it’s so many different things, can it be an opportunity to help bring people together and increase engagement?

AARON: Well, as it relates to learned experiences, I welcome anything that helps people have an experience. Right? I know. And I’m going to bring this now back to the faith issue, not related to media per se, but just as it relates to other cultures or faiths or belief systems, there’s nothing quite like being invited into someone else’s sacred space, that’s unlike any other experience. You know, some things can’t be replicated in by technology, but there’s something really powerful in knowing and visiting and having the experience in someone else’s sacred space. I think it’s very interesting the conversations that are going on, whether they’re about the metaverse, whether about current technologies that are widely adopted, about what it means to invite people into and experience, what is their connection with spirituality, with God centered spirituality, with a religion, with the faith? How can that be anything other than useful when we’re talking about a polarized world where maybe some people are never going to have the opportunity to jump on a plane or befriend someone or have someone who can help do that. I know there are issues right there. There are a lot of issues about security and about privacy and a lot of things that need to be addressed. But technology could be the thing that brings down barriers here. I hope it is. I hope it allows me to broaden my horizons because in looking around and learning more about other people’s faiths, it does nothing but strengthen my own in a better way.

DOUG: Yeah, and it adds to tolerance. Let’s wrap this up. You’re hopeful that the public relations industry can help keep and build community. Any final thoughts on sort of best practice in that space?

AARON: It’s funny because I see our community and maybe it’s because I’m in it, as the people who are really good at connecting the dots and building the bridges. We do it with messaging. We see opportunities and love to jump on opportunities. And while some people might sell us off as the people who sell potato chips or, you know, shoelaces or whatever it would be, the reality is we’re looking at society all the time. So, I have big, high hopes for what the public relations community is able to do right now and things that are those soft skills that no technology is going to be able to replicate, the soft skills that are also the gut instincts that say this is what the data is showing me, this is the opportunity in front of me. But as a PR professional with decades under my belt, or maybe even just some good years under my belt, I know this is going to work, so I have high hopes, not saying that that we’re the peacemakers for the future. But I think with the bridge builders.

DOUG: Yeah. And thank you so much for your thoughtful and thought-provoking conversation. Really appreciate it.

AARON: Thanks for having me.