>> Listen to the episode on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and others.

TRANSCRIPT:

DOUG: For those of you who watched the show, you know Earned media is one of our favorite topics. So, Renee is actually someone with earned media in her title. So, great to have you and is it still possible to build relationships with journalists?

RENEE: Yeah, Doug, thanks for having me today. So, excited to have this conversation. Yeah, I think I think a lot of what we’re seeing heading into 2025, but just in general with this profession is the importance of human connection and authenticity. I studied journalism. That’s where my background is in. I started off as a hyperlocal reporter, and merging that with the world of PR, I’ve always found has been about that person-to-person connection because at the end of the day, we’re all just trying to tell a good story.

DOUG: Yeah, and that’s a good match since I’m a hyper person, so that’ll work really well together. Do you have specific criteria you try and use to identify what journalists or journalists are right for the story that you’re trying to frame for the client?

RENEE: Yeah, I mean, I think I get really nerdy about this, but I think it’s always about taking seven steps back first, especially, you know, on the agency side. We’re working with clients. We need to come up with the best strategy first and foremost. So, I think for us, it’s a lot of things. It’s a mixed bag. So, depending on what the story we’re trying to tell is, we have a lot of stuff we need to kind of weed through before we even start to think about who we’re targeting specifically. So, for us, it’s usually getting a sense from the client first, right? Like, what are the audiences you’re trying to reach? What is that story you’re trying to tell? Are there little things we should keep in mind? Or maybe not so little things, but there’s a lot of sometimes internal expectations, right? Your CEO loves Squawk Box. We just need to consider it or whatever that looks like. I always like to get a sense of like, what are your dream outlets or what are the, you know, who are those audiences you’re trying to reach? So, we can just have a general sense of what’s going to be successful to them, but we do need to marry that with a bit of reality sometimes, right? So, if that’s the story, um, who’s covering that space? You know, are those outlets actually going to cover this story we’re trying to tell? Do we need to actually tweak the story to get in those outlets? So, I like to then look at this side of like, okay, who is just baseline covering that topic. And then we kind of like to come in the middle when we’re thinking about our media strategies. What’s that Venn diagram, right? And I think no matter what we’re still going to everyone or even a bull’s eye is probably a better analogy. What’s that bull’s eye of people that hit your target audience or get your get your internal leadership jazzed, but also our outlets that are actually covering that kind of news, and that’s going to be the ones we’re really going to focus on. And then maybe your outer rungs, like, we’re still going to hit maybe some folks that don’t hit your target audience, but they should definitely be aware of this news for their audiences, or we’ll still try that Hail Mary pitch to whatever outlet and kind of tweak the story to try to get you there. So, it’s all very inclusive of that upfront thinking and upfront strategic work, building.

DOUG: A media list that makes sense is a key part of this, isn’t it?

RENEE: I mean, even as an SVP, like I’ve been doing this for years now, I love building a media list. I think as PR practitioners, we should love building media lists, because I think most people at Edelman who’ve worked with me know that, I only say our campaign is as good as our media list. We should really be hyper thoughtful. Who is the right person for the story? So, yes, maybe we decided that here’s our bullseye target of outlets who are the right people to go to about that outlet, and we really cull through location, beat. Do they even have something in their bio that’s like, I love cheese and our programs about cheese. I’m making it up like, let’s find that perfect person to tell our story. And that’s again where I talked about getting really nerdy about it, that’s where I get nerdy about it.

DOUG: There are so many platforms that there’s broadcast, network TV, local cable, print, trade, of course podcasts in different types of podcasts. How do you navigate determining which of the media outlet targets you’re going to be focusing on.

RENEE: It’s balancing what will be a win and in client’s eyes or in our eyes as well. And who’s covering that, right? So, I think when we’re thinking about the mix, does it make sense for this to be a broadcast story or does this make sense to be more of  a .com?  I know we’ve talked a lot about looking into this year with 2025 and, you know, the rise of podcasts, you know, does this make sense for a longer form podcast story or is it a mix of all those things? I would say anecdotally, for most of the programs I work on, I work on a lot of food and beverage clients. And specifically, we usually deploy some level of a mix of those things. We recently had a really fun, product drop that was like kind of more silly and tongue in cheek and playful. And it was we went to our food outlets that were on dot.com, but then we also very much targeted local broadcast news and national broadcast readers. You know, so you’re seeing it on like your morning show where it’s like, oh my gosh, this brand just launched this crazy new thing. And like, you’re just getting kind of that full surround sound, but I don’t think every program needs every single vertical, right? I think it really depends on, again, the story you’re trying to tell.

DOUG: From the data. We have local TV stations by 3 to 1, actually prefer interviewing someone from the brand from the non-profit, rather than a third-party expert. Of course, this is an exception. If you’ve got a real A-lister, they’ll talk to them. So, what are some of the things you do to prepare the spokespeople and work with them to help develop the message?

RENEE: I do a lot of media training as part of my job at Edelman and I think there’s a couple things to keep in mind. There’s one just the trust function of that. I think we’re seeing a lot we’re also on the heels of Edelman’s Trust Barometer is coming out again soon, but what we’ve seen from that data over time in general is that, people just want to hear from brands in a more transparent way versus just this, like, canned company narrative. And then also you have this distrust in the media, but it’s also encouraging to hear that people are trusting their local TV news over anything else. So, I think it’s marrying those two things, right? So, when we’re preparing our clients or our spokespeople for those interviews, you know, we need to strike that balance again of we get it. Like we know our clients need to protect their leaders and their spokespeople. So, they want to make sure they’re having a very prepped and specific message that’s going out, but it’s a two-way conversation at the end of the day. So, we need to make sure that people are able to have just, again, an authentic human conversation while being really good at, you know, infusing their company narratives in a way that feels a bit more realistic versus just, you know, here’s our bottom line. Or here is insert message A, it’s like, how can you, we call it the A, B, C a lot. Acknowledge bridge and conclude, right? So, acknowledge and answer the question. You can bridge into some of the topics you want to bring, but then make sure you’re concluding it meaningfully as well. And I think that’s something we harp on a lot. And when we prep our clients for those kinds of opportunities.

DOUG: Yeah, and you mentioned trust, which is something we’ve recently spoken. It’s such an integral part of the Edelman brand. And we had done a survey of more than a thousand consumers to find out which different media outlets they were trusting at the time, and what you were referring to, 85% to 15% trusted local TV broadcast more than social media identical if you were a Republican or Democrat. And good luck finding another issue that they met so closely and it was by a 2 to 1 margin, they trusted local TV news more than network news. So, that is really important. Any surprises you see on the horizon for 2025 in terms of earning media? Obviously, we love it, it’s challenging. And so, what are some of the keys to be successful in an ongoing way from your perspective?

RENEE: One example we’ve seen where it’s been kind of hard to predict or stay in line with what we’ve seen be the case is, is with embargoes. We recently had a program. It was a really fun, kind of playful program. And we’ve been counseling a lot that, you know, with the shrinking media landscape and with layoffs and teams being understaffed. You don’t see as much these days of an embargo lifts, and everyone who agreed to that embargo immediately covers the news right when that happens, we start to see that trickle out over a few days because they couldn’t assign someone right away to cover it, and we get that. And so, we have we’ve been educating clients that, hey, you might not see that surge of coverage immediately. This example was actually the opposite. In fact, recently where the embargo lifted and it was just a really exciting and fun campaign that media had covered it quite quickly. And so, I was kind of like, oh my gosh, I’ve been saying this to clients for the past couple of years now, and it kind of went back to an older trend. So, again, it really just depends of what the story is. And everything is changing every single day. So, we just have to be quick on our toes. I use that example to demonstrate again, just how nimble we have to be, because I think every day we’re surprised. Every day we’re unfortunately seeing layoffs across this industry. So again, it comes back to that human connection and having those really tight knit relationships with your journalists, but also just these opportunities we’re seeing, you know, again. We keep talking about the podcast to, right? Like I think that’s going to continue to be really interesting. Are we going to put, you know, a CEO on Hot Ones tomorrow? Probably not.

DOUG: It depends, I guess.

RENEE: Maybe, I mean maybe, but yeah, but I mean, where are those opportunities that feel maybe a little less conventional that are going to hit the right audiences? And I wish I had a crystal ball, but I think every day it’s truly so different.

DOUG: Yeah, and as we wrap up, I want to talk a little bit about navigating client expectations. PR historically is known as wonderful. We’re going to be 10,000, a million. It’s going to be amazing. But sometimes clients have unrealistic goals. Or sometimes the campaign earned media just doesn’t pick it up. I know this would be a rare thing at Edelman. So, how do you manage getting clients excited but navigate expectations at the same time?

RENEE: Clients are going up against so much internally, too. Sometimes they’re the only PR person at their company, and so they’re trying to educate internally like what is earned media or what is that? What does that actually make sense to tell the story. And so, we that’s why we’re there, right? We’re there to help them and give them those, you know, that moment of education and managing those expectations. I think for us, it’s always again, it comes down to what’s the story we’re telling, you know, are there areas we can oh, if we actually could get access to this spokesperson or if you have data or if you have assets, maybe we could get these types of outlets, but again, it’s going back to like what is their goal? Are they actually really more excited if they could get one exclusive in the Wall Street Journal? Or is this a client that really does want mass coverage? So, again, it really comes down to like hearing their goals and what would really like what looks like success to them. And then we can come in and be like, okay, listen, you want this, this, this, you won’t give us this, this, this here’s maybe what we can get out of that. And let’s talk about how that could still be impactful. And I think we do a lot of education too on, you know, again, as we’re looking at some of these other mediums, I think some people are still wrapping their heads around it. If it’s not front page New York Times, then is this really going to be exciting for me? But you think about some of these newer mediums podcasts, newsletters, Substack. It’s like those are actually reaching really, uh, like dedicated, devoted audiences that like, you might get someone that picks up the New York Times and then tosses it to the side. So, that’s great that you’re on the front page, but someone might read the Substack every single day like it is their news lifeline. And so, you’re actually getting people that are way more dialed into those things too. So, it’s really important for us as part of that expectation management to kind of have that landscape education as well.

DOUG: One big trend we’re seeing is the value of earned media. And any of these platforms can be expanded by sharing it, whether it’s with external audiences targeted on internal audience. Are you seeing that kind of multiplier effect with the work that you’re doing as well?

RENEE: Yes, absolutely. I think we talk a lot about how you can amplify these kinds of things. I think unfortunately, sometimes PR and social can really be siloed, which seems kind of crazy, I think as a as those of us who work in this industry or even as a consumer, you would think those things are so intrinsically linked. And they are, but not always in the workplace function. So, a lot of it again, is that education of like, here’s how this could work really hard for you. Are you putting this on your LinkedIn? Are you sharing on your own channels. And we do see that success, I think where we see a lot of success with that, frankly, is which makes sense, is with celebrity campaigns too, and making sure that we are contracting some social content as part of it. It shouldn’t be just media interviews, it shouldn’t be just social, because then when the talent is actually posting about the campaign itself too, sometimes you get that like additional drum up of interest, especially with celebrity podcasts these days too. Like media don’t always actually even need interviews anymore to celebrities because they can just pull a quote from their celebrity podcast. So, it’s like all those things need to work together to really kind of get the most interest possible.

DOUG: Great. Well, you’ve laid out a great education plan for our viewers. Thanks so much for being with us.

RENEE: Thank you, it was a pleasure.